"Esimene stuudio" hosted the debate after Hanno Pevkur's resignation as defense minister, with opposition parties demanding wider accountability and Reform defending its decision to tap a former Estonian Defense Forces (EDF) commander Gen. (Retd) Martin Herem as next minister.

Reform Party MP and Secretary General Kristo Enn Vaga said the world is going through turbulent times, which has made it necessary to make big decisions in the defense arena, and that sometimes these steps had their glitches.

"Unfortunately, major developments also come with areas where things are not done as well as they should be. At such moments, the process needs to be accelerated and trust restored. To that end, we have proposed that former commander of the Estonian Defense Forces Martin Herem take up the post of defense minister. As an expert in the field, he will restore credibility in an area that is extremely important for the Estonian state, all of Europe and Estonia's independence, and I think he will do a very good job," Vaga said.

Social Democratic Party (SDE) leader Lauri Läänemets said Prime Minister Kristen Michal (Reform) should also take responsibility for the failed arms deal with an Indian supplier, and not just Pevkur, who resigned a week ago.

"If we consider where this mess began, it was not only, but mainly, on the day Kristen Michal went on Vikerraadio and said defense spending would be raised to 5 percent. This was carried out in a situation where no one had first calculated things precisely or put a plan in place, and the money simply rained down on the Ministry of Defense," Läänemets said.

The SDE leader added that Pevkur had started distributing these funds, but no one yet knows according to what logic or what its spending destinations were.

"As I understand it, what the media has written about and what the public has heard is not yet the end of all this. So, in light of the Reform Party board's latest decisions, the circle of people who were carrying all this out at the time appears, in some sense, to be returning. It is fair to ask whether all of this looks right and whether the new defense minister can handle a situation in which he needs to turn to the prosecutor's office and say that there were problems here involving close acquaintances of mine and perhaps other people from the time when I was in office," Läänemets continued.

Isamaa chair Urmas Reinsalu said the reputational harm the scandal has inflicted on national defense is highly serious and that citizens acting in good faith have been saddened by the apparent chaos.

"We need to understand two things. First, we still do not know the actual circumstances surrounding these deals. For more than a year now, nearly two years, we have been lied to, misled and had things covered up. The Riigikogu has also been deliberately misled, and the question is who is actually responsible for this? The second thing that must be very important for the public is that we need to get clarity on this matter," Reinsalu said.

According to the Isamaa chair, clarity will come one way or another, but it is important that the government promptly put right the disorder in the defense sector highlighted by the National Audit Office.

"There is no excuse whatsoever. Unfortunately, it must be internalized that the Reform Party has failed in managing Estonia's national defense, and that is a fair, dispassionate diagnosis. In my view, General Herem himself has previously expressed this in several critical statements. In some ways, it demonstrates the Reform Party's bankruptcy that none of its politicians now dared to take responsibility amid this confusion, and instead they brought in General Herem, who has been clearly distancing himself from the Reform Party in one way or another," Reinsalu went on.

Eesti 200 MP and Riigikogu National Defense Committee member Peeter Tali said his party joined the ranks of Pevkur's critics since Ministry of Defense Secretary General Kaimo Kuusk had promised to resolve the issues, yet had failed to do so.

"On a human level, I even feel a little sorry for him [Kaimo Kuusk – ed.]. Now it turns out later that the matter has not been put right, and then there is this whole nonexistent shell deal. The Indians with their invisible, semi-invisible shells – it is simply so sad and ridiculous. That is essentially what broke the political backbone," Tali said.

Center Party leader Mihhail Kõlvart continued to demand that the prime minister resign in addition to Pevkur. Kõlvart said Pevkur's acceptance of political but not personal responsibility did not resolve the matter.

"To leave with the message that someone else is responsible, but I am statesmanlike and prepared to take responsibility – that is not enough. Political responsibility means that politicians are also capable of creating the appropriate system to implement their strategy. We were told that the country's main priority – which is also appropriate – is defense, to which the whole of society must contribute, and society does contribute every day. Yet it turns out that the respected prime minister who came up with the slogan stopped at the slogan, because the system was not ready to deliver on that," Kõlvart said.

Kõlvart called it "incomprehensible" that the public sector could lack basic accounting procedures.

"We see that no procurement system, document management system or storage system has been developed – all of this has been highlighted by the National Audit Office. The question arises: if the system has not been created and prepared, who is responsible for that? The government and the prime minister. Today they have an extraordinary opportunity to demonstrate that through their actions," Kõlvart said.

EKRE chair Martin Helme said Pevkur's resignation has not been followed by a calmer period, for as long as those who breached trust remain in leadership positions.

"Earlier Kristo Enn Vaga said here that we are going to start restoring trust – he seems to somehow gloss over this, but who destroyed that trust in the first place? Who trampled trust in national defense underfoot? The honest answer is that Pevkur has been one of the longest-serving ministers in the current government, having become defense minister in 2022. He has also served as a minister in other posts, and his friendship with [Estonian Center for Defense Investments (RKIK) CEO and former chief of police] Elmar Vaher goes back to when he was interior minister and lost [Internal Security Service operative detained by Russia 2014-2015] Mr. [Eston] Kohver across the border. It was Reform Party leadership that destroyed that trust, and now they want to bring us a person alongside whom that trust was destroyed and the schemes were created – Herem," Helme said.

According to Helme, bringing Herem in as minister represents a panicked attempt to put the people who destroyed trust back in charge.

"It has been very rightly said here that the Estonian people have made sacrifices without complaint for the sake of strengthening national defense, agreeing to tax increases, spending cuts and restrictions on certain civil liberties. And what have they received in return? They have not received capabilities in return; hundreds of millions have simply disappeared into some black hole. Let us speak plainly about this scheme. The state itself created the scheme; it was started under Herem and Pevkur. A scheme was created in which shell companies with no track record, no assets and, in most cases, no previous experience in the field were sought out, and shells began to be purchased through them. Now we are in court with them. We are in court with five different companies and preparing court action against two others to recover the money," Helme said, adding that the money would not be recovered from these shell companies and front men.

"All of this responsibility lies with the government! To think that we can replace one person involved in the scheme with another and everything will be put right – it is not possible, it is not possible!" Helme added.

Vaga experienced health issues from around 10 minutes into the show and shortly had to leave the studio to be taken to hospital.

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