The discussion centers on Nicholas Wade's 2025 book "The Origin of Politics: How Evolution and Ideology Shape the Fate of Nations."

Wade holds conservative views and emphasizes the role of biological development — or evolution — in all human affairs. His criticism of anthropologists, sociologists, and political scientists — that they too often ignore genetics and evolution when explaining human behavior — is probably justified. However, he swings to the other extreme and tries to explain everything through genetics and evolution. Although he frequently uses examples highlighting the role of culture in societies, he still argues that genetics ultimately underlies it all.

Wade points out that human society is governed by two sets of rules. One consists of the rules of human nature — innate behaviors selected by evolution. The other is the political system of society.

At present, he sees two conflicts between politics and human nature. One is the weakening of the social cohesion needed to hold together multicultural societies. The other is the global decline in birth rates. No other species faces such problems. In ant or monkey societies, only evolutionary rules apply. Humans, however, have the ability not only to adapt rules but also to create new ones, which can prove dangerous.

The rules of evolution are aimed at ensuring the survival of human groups and do not care about happiness or freedom. Political rules, by contrast, may have different goals. In autocracies the aim is the continued dominance of the elite. In liberal democracies, rules function through ideologically competing coalitions.

From time to time, people have tried to create entirely new rule-based communities. In the early 20th century, Jews who migrated to Palestine sought to build a new kind of egalitarian society and established kibbutzim, which can be compared to the collective farms created by the Bolsheviks. Because of complete equality, kibbutzim had no wages, private property, or traditional family structures; children were raised collectively. But the plan conflicted with evolved human nature and ultimately failed, even though kibbutzim still exist today with support from the state of Israel — albeit likely in a modified form.

For a long time, equality was characteristic of human communities in history, especially during the hunter-gatherer era, but ultimately it does not work. As an ideal, however, it has not disappeared — although evolution has eliminated many other traits.

For example, polygamy and tribalism have largely disappeared in most countries. Monogamy simply proved more beneficial for society. Tribalism was generally effective, but its weakness was the lack of centralized capabilities, such as tax collection or maintaining a standing army. Still, tribal tendencies have not vanished from human nature — they persist in the preference for relatives, especially among those in positions of power and wealth.

According to Wade, political scientists have a problem with human nature: if one accepts that it has evolved and thus has a genetic basis, then politics cannot shape society entirely at will.

Broadly speaking, human nature has two aspects. One is self-interest, tied to basic needs such as eating, survival, and reproduction. In addition, humans have developed social behavior, likely driven by the need for protection, since cooperation made survival easier.

Wade sees the modern nation-state as a symbolic kinship-based system — a kind of extended neo-tribalism. A shared language and culture help people perceive the state as a large extended family. Warfare stems from the human instinct to defend family and community. The rule of law comes from the concept of reciprocity and the punishment of rule-breakers. Religion is rooted in an innate tendency to form emotional bonds with supernatural forces through socially unifying rituals. Trade is based on reciprocity and the motivation to exchange resources with potential allies. In short, that's how simple it is.

The egalitarian nature of early human societies was appealing, and because humans have spent about 98 percent of their existence in such environments, we adapted to their behavioral norms. This is why, on a subconscious level, we feel that people should be free and equal, without being commanded by others. Today, however, high levels of equality may hinder innovation and productivity. While hunter-gatherer equality was pleasant, it also meant social stagnation.

Evolution has encoded certain behavioral patterns in the human genome that have driven processes favorable to social development. One example is the desire to pass property on to one's children to improve their chances of survival. This led the state to establish rules for inheritance within social classes; when these rules were later extended beyond the elite, the foundations of legal systems emerged.

War has also played a major role in shaping society. It, too, is part of human nature and compels societies to increase their capabilities. In addition to war, climate and population growth have shaped societies. State institutions reflect their historical context, which is why institutions cannot simply be transferred mechanically from one society to another when histories and cultures differ. A negative example is the American attempt to transplant its system into Vietnam, Afghanistan, or Iraq.

One of the strongest drivers of human behavior is the pursuit of wealth and status. Most modern liberal states are meritocratic — that is, individuals are evaluated based on their abilities. However, not everyone is equally talented, and some become wealthier and gain higher status. This leads to growing inequality. When inequality becomes too great and persistent, social tensions arise, with political consequences.

Many observers interpret several election outcomes in the United States and Europe as a revolt of the masses against meritocracy. Today, the situation is particularly acute due to the rapid accumulation of wealth by the ultra-rich, driven by technological advances, and their visible display of that wealth. Moreover, wealth is inheritable, meaning that in a meritocratic society, prosperity increasingly becomes a genetic lottery — being born into the right family.

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