A meeting between Russian leader Vladimir Putin and Chinese leader Xi Jinping has just ended. Some information has emerged publicly, but surprisingly little. Why is that? The talks mainly focused on economic matters and the gas pipeline that could begin transporting gas from Russia to China, but no agreement was reached. That was practically all — why has so little information been released about it?

It is very difficult to answer that question because the meeting was primarily intended to balance the president of the People's Republic of China's meeting with U.S. President Donald Trump. The story actually began earlier this year when President Trump announced that he would travel to China on a state visit. Initially, it was supposed to take place in mid-March, but it was postponed because of the war with Iran and ended up taking place now, as had been announced a few months ago. Russia immediately began saying that it, too, would have a visit to China and I would argue that this is also in China's interests. There is probably little information because nothing particularly major or groundbreaking was accomplished beyond a joint declaration.

So what exactly was declared there?

It was declared that the era of unilateral U.S. dominance in the world is over and that a new era is beginning in which the countries of Asia, Latin America, the Caribbean and the Middle East are represented by China and Russia. According to the declaration, this gives them an opportunity to build a fairer and more multipolar world order.

That world order is not fairer or more multipolar and that era has not yet arrived. I would argue that things are not really like that.

Absolutely, but the declaration actually shows that China wanted to send a message to the United States: "While we are discussing bilateral matters and economic issues with you here, my political allies are elsewhere."

How can it be that Putin is able to come on a state visit just a few days after Trump? That is not Putin's decision — he cannot decide when he meets with the Chinese leader. Why is China timing it this way?

China is timing it this way precisely to create the impression that it is now the center of the world. Beijing is the place where global affairs are discussed and they want to balance out the image created by the meeting between the Chinese leader and President Trump. I would also add that China has not spoken about any agreements following the meetings with the United States. As more time passes, President Trump increasingly says that he managed to secure some kind of agreement there. We will see — nothing has been signed between the U.S. and China.

So why did China not sign the agreement on building the Russian gas pipeline? I understand that it is expensive and that China wants to move away from fossil fuels, but why was no deal reached?

It is a very long and complicated story, but China is not actually very interested in it.

Even though Russia is.

It is more important for Russia and China might even like for some amount of Russian gas to reach eastern China — the inland regions where it is difficult to transport gas and oil from elsewhere. But the problem is that Russia has not built the necessary pipeline infrastructure in that area. To deliver gas to China now, more than 2,000 kilometers of new pipelines would have to be constructed, but Russia does not have the money for that. That is precisely why China is currently putting pressure on Russia and the reason China does not want to build the pipeline quickly — or perhaps at all — is ultimately its desire to avoid becoming dependent on Russian gas.

So is China already the kind of global superpower that can hand out whatever it wants to the world — whether money or, in the future, unwelcome political influence — or is that still simply its ambition?

I think that, for now, it is still more of an ambition and it aligns with Russia's ambitions as well. They want to break U.S. dominance and the dominance of the U.S. dollar in global payments. In their view, that is what prevents them from developing cooperation with each other and with other countries. But China still cannot accomplish this on its own. In reality, it needs its partnership with Russia precisely to balance the United States.

If we place all of this into the broader global picture — and the war in Ukraine is extremely important for us and for the whole world — then how do the meetings between Putin and the Chinese leader and between Trump and the Chinese leader affect the situation in Ukraine, if at all?

At the moment, it does not appear to have a direct impact. A few isolated remarks have been made suggesting that President Trump discussed the issue of Ukraine with the Chinese president. China itself has said nothing about it and has simply repeated its earlier talking points. They do not refer to what is happening in Ukraine as a war at all, but rather as the "Ukraine crisis," which reflects Russia's framing of the situation. That is why I would argue that these discussions have not produced any major agreements or significant results.

After the meeting between Trump and Xi, we heard the remark that Xi had allegedly said Putin might come to regret attacking Ukraine in the future. What kind of claim is that?

That is a phrase that was leaked to the Americans and because there is no broader context for it, it is very difficult to assess. I would argue that the Chinese president has previously expressed dissatisfaction with Russia launching its full-scale invasion of Ukraine, but he certainly was not interested in Russia losing the war.

If we broaden the discussion even further, then energy and economic issues were the main topics under discussion. What about the Strait of Hormuz? Today — or perhaps already yesterday — there were reports that NATO is considering whether to send its ships to keep the Strait of Hormuz open or to reopen it. Is that a serious discussion or is it more about trying to please Trump?

I think it is a serious discussion, but such a mission will not happen before some kind of final agreement is reached between the United States and Iran. NATO is not going there to wage war in that form. One can also be fairly certain that Iran will not reopen the strait before some sort of final agreement has been concluded with the U.S.

How does this process move forward? As I understand it, everything is at a standstill, the whole world is paying enormous prices for oil and Russia is benefiting from higher revenues?

At this stage, when there is no active military conflict, it is in both Russia's and Iran's interests to drag the process out. Iran appears fairly confident that the United States will not strike again and that is why it has developed a strategy of diplomatically exhausting the U.S. As we can see, Iran still has certain levers of influence that have come as something of a surprise to the U.S. president. The United States has not been able to find a form of diplomatic pressure that would force Iran to make even minor concessions to U.S. demands.

How should these China visits be assessed? As I understand it, the external image surrounding all of this is bigger than the actual substance — both in the case of the meeting with Putin and with Trump?

Without a doubt. Above all, China achieved a visual effect — presenting itself as the great power where the world comes to discuss major issues. That image reinforces the sense that global processes are shifting and may even be slightly ahead of actual events. Meanwhile, the U.S. president is expecting the president of the People's Republic of China to make a return visit to Washington and if any clearer long-term agreements between the two countries do emerge, we may perhaps see them in the fall.

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